#and I was thinking how I don’t really fit the bisexual stereotype

[that-artistic-cryptid]

I’ve been thinking..every crush I’ve had on a guy has been when I was in elementary school, plus I could do this thing where I just made myself stop liking them. And I thought I was just unique like that. But I straight up made myself fall in love with them. I gave myself reasons to get a crush. First I thought for some reason that I should only be with someone my height. There were 2 guys the same height as me. I forced myself to love them. Then others. I’d give myself a narrative, kinda like a script that I should follow. All other men I’ve ever liked were either fictional or I would just crush on them for a whole summer, and the day we were supposed to see each other again I wouldn’t be in love anymore. Also that specific person I’m referencing was one of the first friends I’d made that were actual friends. So I do think the feeling was just friendship. I’ve only really liked fictional men. I don’t think I would like them romantically in real life

I saw a post about things op found attractive about men and like…I don’t know if it’s an asexual thing, I don’t THINK so because those things were mostly non-sexual. I might just be a lesbian, idk. Like I couldn’t imagine just stopping being in love with my gf, just because. I don’t think I could

[im-out-of-it]

making a complete list of my thoughts of the show vs books since I finished it and will probably leave some stuff out since I’m super forgetful, sorry 💀

1. once again love that they upped the ages. glad we didn’t have centuries year old Magnus chasing teenager Alec or all the other inappropriate relationships in the books

2. Malec is fucking perfect on the show and it really showed that if anybody actually cares about them, they can make the characters much better and give the characters a better shot than the author ever did. I seriously love all the details Matt, Harry, and whoever wrote their episodes did. only one I cannot stand is when Alec doesn’t realize right away that Magnus and valentine switched bodies. but alec handled the immortality thing wayyyyyy better than book Alec ever could. book Alec (and pretty much TMI content and etc) barely exists let’s be real

3. Izzy and Simon are way too rushed in the series but at least they have more of a friendship and there’s no cheating storyline. but I kinda like Maia and Simon together. I feel that Maia understood Simon.

adding: I don’t mind Simon and clary in the show dating and the way they end things is not as harsh as it is in the books. maybe clary (I’m being kind lmao) actually cares about Simon in the show but still kinda uses him at times

4. might be the only thing I’ll say about the books that’s nice but it would’ve been cute to see the vacation storyline (eldest curses) in the show. would’ve been cute to see a Malec holiday and moving towards them having children 🥹

5. Maia doesn’t get enough credit. she’s one of the few sensible people on the show and gets more attention than book Maia ever did

6. speaking of Maia, I’m glad they didn’t go too extreme with the Jordan plot. in the books, I think she was made to feel to get over how Jordan treated her. but man, why does the actor have to be attractive 😭

7. I really like Maryse and Luke together. they fit each other quite well. Maryse has some of the best development in the show and I loved seeing her grow

8. glad Jocelyn was killed off. she was more insufferable in the books so glad the show decided they didn’t need that energy

9. Jace and clary are both clearly insufferable but it’s worse in the books. I feel like in the show they’re still pretty bad but it’s a little tamed

10. Alec deserved better than jace. dude had the audacity to act as though Alec is a fling, expected Alec at his beck and call to do whatever he wanted while not understanding or caring about Alec’s feelings and his needs, practically invites himself at Magnus’s place while being the worst roommate, and then taking for granted all the people who sacrificed (MAGNUS AND HIS MAGIC LITERALLY THIS LOVELY MAN LOSES HIS MAGIC AND HIS HOME AND HIS MIND) once again to help his worthless ass

11. wish they wouldn’t have killed ragnor off. we got to see a lot of vampires and wolves but not a lot of warlocks. would’ve been great to see more of Magnus’s friends. you could seriously make a whole show based off on Magnus and his life

12. kinda wish they kept camille around. I know she was drama for malec in the beginning but she’s still a very fascinating character

13. I’m 100% thankful for the show not following the books and creating their own world

14. I would’ve loved to see more of the alternate universe episodes. one of the best episodes

15. ALL THE MALEC PARALLELS. these two beautiful and desperately, devoted, in love with one another men are seriously the best part of the show 😭 the fact that there are no cheating stories (when Alec is all drunk, underhill is flirting and all Alec can talk about is Magnus. Magnus defies bisexual stereotypes when dot tries to kiss him.), no taking away immortality or throwing fits or bierasure, or any toxic storylines is one of my fav things about Malec. they’re just two beings who are so in love with one another, who communicate, and are just completely devoted to each other. and it’s one of the reasons why everyone was so hooked on Malec. they’re healthy but you’re also excitedly rooting for them 🫶🏼

16. Clary deserved to lose her ability with runes. the angels message was to not use her rune ability for whatever she pleased but she took advantage of it. but I will say, some helped but I feel that the rest she just used because she didn’t care

17. season three breakup wrecked me and I’ll not emotionally recover from that. it breaks my heart seeing Alec break his own heart and Magnus’s all so Magnus can have his magic and be whole again. I’m so glad they got married in the end 💓

18. I’m glad the twinning rune went to clary instead of jace because how many times does this worthless fucker need saved????? SERIOUSLY HOW MANY

19. I think Magnus recognizing what Alec needs at the beginning when they meet is beautiful. I don’t think it’s creepy (as some book fans state.) and it shows that Magnus understands that Alec is not ready to be out. I’m glad Magnus doesn’t get shitty with Alec on not being out like he does in the books

20. also book vs show thing. I actually like the whole marrying Lydia plot. I get the whole grand gesture of kissing in wherever they were- sanctuary???? (y’all cannot pay me enough to read TMI again, I will not go through that torture again) but I really hate that it’s not even in Alec or Magnus’s pov. CC makes a point of giving characters she chooses to have unnecessary pov

21. I probably forgot something but I mainly skipped all the clace content that didn’t involve Alec or Magnus but otherwise, messy show but so amazing for the Malec content. Izzy, Maia, Raphael, and Simon are a bonus as well. I’m just saying that the show could’ve been a whole lot worse lmao

[frostyblustar]

First off: I absolutely LOVED „stray, the wolf will eat your head“!!

Second: PLEASE DO TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE DETAILS AND SYMBOLISM IN IT!!

Oh my god where do I even start with this fic?? I’m just gonna talk about random things that pop in my head as I scroll through (this is gonna be long)

The Path is literally called ‘dull’ ‘straight’ and ‘boring’ but also ‘safe’. This alludes to the Path being a metaphor for straightness.

Why is the forest filled with seemingly random objects/places-? They pertain to Nico’s identity, but also queerness can seem confusing.

The singular boot represents Nico’s initial loneliness. They come in pairs, and he has no Bianca or Percy at this time. He feels utterly alone, and feels alone in his own struggles and initial feelings about the forest.

Why is Bianca mentioned to have a more gray dress than white when she’s based on the Girl in White from The Path?… Because it would make her ‘The Girl in Gray’ but I don’t think anyone has catched on to that. Also she represents a sense of innocence before venturing into the world/experiencing a traumatic event, similar to The Girl in White from The Path.

The wolf will eat your head is essentially saying if you trust a wolf, you’re brainless. They take away your wits. There is also the scarecrow with no head in the flower field that is kind of a mockery of this.

Where is Bianca’s body?

Her bones are in the scarecrow in the flower feild. Since she serves as a strawman for a lot of people arguing against the forest. She was stuffed in there by one of those people long after her death. She is resentful of her lover who left her body to rot.

How did she die?

Dirt. A mudslide. Yeah the line ‘You make it sound like the dirt killed your family.’ is supposed to be irony, but since Bianca’s death is never mentioned it’s not really anything you’d catch onto, just background info.

The sword in the stone reference is just based on Nico’s love for stories, but he also gains a means of defending himself through it if needed. I believe this could mean he finds stories like these fuel his curiosity and give him wits to hold up on his own? But really it’s just a fun thing.

Dianthus and green carnations are the two flowers in the flower field. Dianthus mean ‘Flowers of the gods’ while green carnations represent homosexuality.

The powerlines between two poles represent Percy and Nico having a connection.

Piano and flute. The piano is supposed to represent Italian heritage while the flute is a symbol of nature. Also, I looked up ‘gay instruments’ and a lot of people think flute players are stereotypically gay so… Yeah…

Why does Percy wear blue? Well cause boy in blue cmon I CANNOT PASS THAT UP! Blue also represents a lot of things like freedom, open spaces like the sky, and a lot of the times sadness.

Who is Percy referring to when he says he knew someone who knew flowers well? Honestly, probably Calypso, but it’s 100% an ex he had to leave after being treated like shit for being bisexual. That’s all I had written out for that. If you don’t like Calypso, I also thought Jason might fit this ex role.

Spotted feathers, from what I found, represent a scattered mind (which is why they bother Nico specifically after Percy is talking) I also used removing them as a way of showing Nico rebelling against society/tradition.

A lot of the language used is supposed to be transferrable into a different context. Replacing the forest with homosexuality makes things super obvious. Honestly too much of the dialogue is supposed to be like that.

Anyways that’s all I got off the top of my head, thanks for reading. Ask any more questions if you want, start a thread even! I can definitely elaborate on even things I’ve already brought up if you want that.

The link to the fic I’ve been talking about by the way.

[misspermitted]

Being a sex-repulsed asexual a lot of coming out stories don’t really speak to my experiences. Because I don’t date, never will date, experienced dating exactly once (in a hetero-conforming relationship) for like 3 days and wanted to die. Generally I don’t even participate in LGBT+ discussions because I don’t have a lot of sexuality experiences (and if i start talking about my gender i might cry). I just linger in the background of my friend groups and give relationship safety advice. Offer pizza. Call out toxic behaviour. Offer more pizza.

The thing about communities is to share your experiences they need to fit into the community’s categories. And I don’t think that’s bad. LGBT+ spaces are safe spaces for those in the community, and in order for that to happen they have to exclude certain discussions. It’s like female-identifying only spaces should exclude male-identifying people. It’s the whole point of a community.

This said, the other point of community is feeling less alone via shared experiences. So I thought I’d share a funny part of my sexuality journey which did seem pretty queer:

How I Made My Family Believe in Asexuality by Being So Goddamn Asexual They Actually Couldn’t Not

My family is generally really nice and supportive. But they’re also low-key homophobic. They’re getting better, but my mother straight up didn’t believe bisexuality existed for most of my childhood because “Everyone is attracted to men and women, just pick one.” (Yeah. She identifies as bisexual now.) Every so often someone says something transphobic and I get to call it out. Last I checked my sister still thinks gender fluidity is just people being attention seeking.

So when I came out as asexual, my sister sat me down, very well meaning, and told me that she also didn’t feel a lot of sexual attraction but when she started dating it came (yeah, I know, demisexual coded, but I’m not touching whatever the hell is going on with her). And because we’d both grown up without a lot of physical affection it’s just that. I should just try dating someone. No matter what arguments I made to the contrary both her and the rest of my family would often make comments to that vein (because internalised homophobia doesn’t listen to reason).

My mother did a retrospectively hilarious The Sex Talk: Pt. 2 “there’s nothing wrong with you and you’re definitely not asexual don’t worry.” She sat me down, very serious, and assured me that women get turned on less easily than men. So not being turned on by porn or being able to masturbate was normal for some women and didn’t mean anything was wrong with me and I was “asexual.” That was a fun conversation.

Somehow, despite their inability to listen to reason, I solved this problem about two years after coming out.

The thing about coming out is that you slowly stop pretending you’re straight. I didn’t even realise I was pretending before I came out (because, you know, I wasn’t dating anyone). But I was actually masking hard. I talked about dating way too much. Made way too many dirty jokes. It was weird. I was overcompensating the hell out of it. Which, after I came out, I slowly called myself out on until I stopped.

And it turns out when I’m not pretending to be attracted to people I am hilariously, almost stereotypically, asexual. For example, about a year after I came out I was watching Thor with my sister and this shirtless scene happened:

My sister: 😳

Me (turning to her): Hey did you know that when Chris Hemsworth filmed this movie he was so dehydrated that he almost died? Actually that might’ve been the movie after this. But it’s a huge thing to get actors to look like that they dehydrate them, which seems like a lot of health concern just to make them look like Greek sculptures. I mean I know he’s supposed to be a god but i really don’t think it’s necessary. Like Norse gods had different beauty aesthetics anyway.

My sister: (just stares at me for a second) It’s not so he looks like a Greek god it’s so he looks attractive

Me: I know but do the aesthetics really matter that much?

My sister: No, like, people watch this specifically because they’re attracted to Chris Hemsworth in these scenes

Me: Oh. So it’s for audience engagement?

My sister: I… guess so?

And that is how I acted so asexual I actually convinced my sister to believe in it. She has not made a comment about my asexuality since.

The same thing has happened with the rest of my family members. One by one they have become corrupted because I am just too asexual to be denied. You cannot meet me and maintain a state of disbelief.

We’ve gotten to the point where my mother is so certain about my sexuality she got offended for me, because “someone was calling themselves asexual but was in a sexual relationship with someone.” (We had a lovely discussion again about asexuality being a spectrum and just reflecting you having a not-normal level of sexual attraction. She still thinks this invalidates my experience and struggles which is very nice of her but once again I do not care. If people want to be one of the only sexualities still classified as a mental illness in the DSM-5 then the more the merrier. Gatekeep pizza not oppression.)

[dearweirdme]

i am not trying to be mean but i rlly do get an ick from “tkkrs” admitting the hello kitty threw them off in jk’s vlog. i do not understand how if you suspect two MEN to be in a romantic relationship you still fall victim to such stereotyping. i do not get how you refuse to see jk for his entire self. suddenly it is entirely believable once the hello kitty is next to tae? he is not a woman, he is not more “feminine” than jk and to try and fit them into such roles makes me think that non shippers who call shippers fetishizers have a point.

Hi anon!

I was joking with the former anon.. but I do agree with you.

I think there’s several layers in our Tkk fandom. Some are leaning more towards classical shipping, just enjoying the thought and perhaps occasionally wondering if it’s actually true. Some are more in it for the mystery of it all.. constantly trying to find out clues. Others don’t really know what they’re looking at and go from ‘it’s true’ to ‘it’s not true’ in a heartbeat. And then there’s some who really consider the deeper context of what being queer is actually like.

I think many don’t actually give the queer context and what life for Tae and Jk (and other queer artists) would be like much thought. Many people treat this as how they would think about a ‘normal’ relationship… and sadly the ‘normal’ these days still often is a relationship between a man and a woman (and all the ‘normal’ gender aspects that entails). Aside from the queer part of this fandom.. I don’t think there are many who actually immerse themselves into researching and understanding queer history and queer media. Many would have watched Call me by your name, and Love Simon, because those were mentioned by Tae and Jk. But have they gone beyond that? Can someone understand queer reality by watching only those?

I too have a real ick when it comes to people talking about a ‘feminine’ partner and a masculine partner when it comes to queer couples. Like.. yo.. the whole point is that gay men love men and lesbian women love women. It’s harmful and very misogynistic even. Because it sends the message that a softer man isn’t a full man, and that a more masculine woman should be a man. And it sets bisexual persons up to be perceived as confused or not being able to pick a side. Buh… I hate it.

[d4t-webserial]

D4T: Page 6 (Alice POV)

//cw: transphobic slur// go here for more info on d4t

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Alice’s been able to get Lu to hang out very often (pretty much whenever they both have free time ;p). Having this large amount of time in person she’s been able to realize some more things about him.

First off he isn’t a chaser… well he is in that he’s a “man” (we’ll get into that later) who likes trannies, but he doesn’t fit with… what you'd call the stereotype of “chaser”, but that’s not what made her come to this conclusion. No, it’s whenever she calls him a chaser he’ll visibly cringe, most men who are shameless enough to use 4chan *and* openly admit to dating tgirls are more than comfortable using chaser to describe themselves, so something about it has gotta be off to him. Secondly he’s really feminine like *super*, don’t get her wrong she wasn’t one of those weirdy homophobic girls who usually call themselves allies but would rather their boyfriend cheat on them than be bisexual, and she always knew Lu wasn’t exactly… super masculine (the idea of him doing typical straight man posturing was both ridiculous… and upsetting), but he’s *so* feminine in how he holds himself and talks... and honestly even his body (his hands are so smooth). This leads her to a simple conclusion, he isn’t *really* a chaser but instead a repper in denial (honestly she should have seen this sooner it’s a classic chaser archetype), now other girls usually talk about these chasers as bad and to be avoided, she didn’t know if this was cause there was something inherently bad about your boyfriend trooning out on you or is it’s just about the gender, due to not knowing she assumes the latter and luckily for her she’s a **massive** bishit (she has decided this as of now) and if he (or should she switch to "she"?... nah, she’ll give him the benefit of the doubt) takes the pinkpill she can still make him her girlfriend… unless he was straight technically but he obviously isn’t (he’s the dictionary definition of agp t4t transbian… except he isn’t into diapers… she hopes).

While hanging out they tended to fall into an interesting pattern whether it’s at her house in her room or at his dorm when his roommate’s out, he’ll sit at some large but not too noticeable distance away from her (he isn’t as subtle as he thinks), then while they’re talking or watching one of his shows or playing video games (well he plays she just watches, unless it’s mario kart she’s the fucking best at mario kart) she’ll move ever so closer, bit by bit so he can pull back if he wants (he never does) until she’s right next to him, she doesn’t go overboard only the sorta interactions that’d make sense for… completely platonic friends (but like… gal pal friends). Whenever she leans on him he stops making much sense like his brain is malfunctioning, and she can totally hear his heartbeat. One time she caught him looking at her and could’ve swore he was gonna kiss her… but he didn’t, ever since then he’s been a bit more distant, not much tho… just, a bit.

gsrtgsgkgnrstlhnrturwlj okay… okay… it’s okay… she’ll just wait for him to be ready, she’s okay with that, he’ll make a move… eventually,... but he *is* autistic like sooooo autistic, he might not know she’d like it, maybe if she told him… oh god…

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “hey lu”

trashbag_minister (Lu): “hi”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “i have smth i wanna tell u”

.

trashbag_minister (Lu): “what is it?”

.

.

.

she starts typing

.

.

.

.

.

.

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “if you want to date i would like that”

trashbag_minister (Lu): “oh”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “i kno u said u werent dating a while back i just”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “if u wanted to kno i guess”

.

.

.

trashbag_minister (Lu): “i’m detrans”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “what?”

trashbag_minister (Lu): “i was a trans girl for,, a while, but i stopped”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “i kno tht”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “or i didn’t kno u were but i kno what detran means”

Tranny Mona Lisa (Alice): “why?”

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Too anxious to wait for a response she put her phone down… fuck, he’s a detransitioner. What does that mean? Like why tho… the only detransitioners she’d seen were the bald ones on twitter saying she was in a cult, she didn’t even know trans women detransitioned, well like obviously they do at least one did, but like… she hadn’t thought about it. Is he like… one of those ex-gay people, using her in the same way an “ex” gay uses anonymous hookups on grindr to satisfy some repressed desire. Did he think his body was mutilated, or that hers was? Why did he identify as a chaser, or go on /tttt/? Did he actually like trans girls… she had thought he did but was “chaser” just an excuse to be a cis man in trans spaces? He always seemed so supportive, but she thought detransitioners hated the trans community for “ruining” their bodies. Did he hate all trans people or only himself… Was he still the same person, Her Lu?

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[wodania]

honestly no i don’t think it’s weird at all to be upset about the exclusion of satin in the show.. if anything though as a gay guy im pretty glad they didn’t have him if loras is any indicator.. imagine them with a fairly effeminate gay coded character? no thanks 🫣

Loras was a sign of the end times 😭 I think I’ve made a joke before that if JonCon had been included he probably would’ve been written like one of those modern family dads and I feel more and more right each passing day.

Gonna rant a little (a whole shit ton like it’s really long I’m so sorry I got carried away) about gender and sexuality in ASOIAF/GoT here because I’m a lesbian and obsessed with analyzing these things :

tldr; D&D set up gender roles/rules where there weren’t previously any, and removed and added character traits as they saw fit (especially looking at feminine = gay and masculine = straight). If a character did not fit their perceived mould, such as Qarl the Maid, Jon Connington, and Satin, and could not be altered to fit that perceived mould, they were cut entirely. They also, in a possible attempt to be more relatable to a gay audience, introduced systematic religious homophobia where it was not previously, brutalizing their gay character. They wrote them as stereotypes and ignored them if they could not possible be shaped into one of their stereotypes.

GRRM obviously plays with gender roles and dynamics with his characters, yet D&D makes it so black and white. Gay people are all effeminate men. Hell, even Asha/Yara falls into this. She and her lover Qarl are a major fuck you to westerosi gender roles and expectations. He’s an effeminate man and she’s a masculine woman in a dominate powerful position. Yet he’s removed from the show. Absolutely no hate to queer “Yara”, but it is interesting in hindsight how that ended up working out. Had she been written differently, I’d argue that bisexuality compliments her character - if it weren’t for the history D&D has. When they do play with gender roles, it’s so tacky and one dimensional and ends with weird, nonsensical scenarios of female badassery with none of the development present in the books. Then, on the other hand, any vulnerability or deviance from societal expectations that male characters experience are wiped clean. Jon Snow is made into a generic fantasy hero type. Men who are seen as “weaker” or more “submissive” are brutalized on screen as torture p/rn, as shown with Theon Greyjoy. And men who are gay must be effeminate or promiscuous in one way or another. Loras deviated from that, so he had to be stripped of his defining traits and turned into fan service. Satin deviated from that even more, being a sex worker, and was stripped from the show entirely. Loras didn’t sleep with men enough, and the show writers wanted to change that. But Satin slept with men too much, and was in too close of proximity narratively and physically to fantasy hero Jon Snow. They wanted gay sex depicted in an easily digestible way for their perceived cishet audience, and found the idea of a boy selling his body to survive abysmal and not appropriate for such an audience, though they had no problem exploiting female prostitutes for the pleasure of the viewers . And in a weird attempt to be “relatable” to modern audiences, d&d introduced a self imposed barrier: homosexuality being illegal. Likely thinking that gay audiences would love to see their favourite gay Loras Tyrell brutalized and spat upon, D&D did exactly that, failing to realize that gay audiences would much rather see a queer character existing in a dark fantasy without their sexuality being what puts them in danger, compared to seeing something they already witness every day (religious-motivated violence and persecution) thrown into the show. Like it’s such an insult to the source material, especially considering that the 1990s book that hardly makes explicit references to the relationship of Loras and Renly does a better job at making them likeable, well developed characters than the “modern” 2010s tv drama. The flower crown, rainbow, cutesy edits dating back to the early days of Game of Thrones is a far cry from the depiction of politically savvy Renly and brutal and bloody Loras in the books. And the show just kind of encouraged that view of the two, as the cutesy gay boy fan service, hairless as a newborn baby and scared of blood. On the topic of JonCon, it would have been near impossible to introduce him and have him fit this set rule of “effeminate men = gay” and “masculine men = heterosexual”. JonCon is an intimidating, stone faced character who’s demeanour is hinted at being similar to that of Tywin fucking Lannister, as Tyrion almost accidentally refers to Jon as “father”. Aka, Jon is scary af. He’s older, grey, potentially dated the ugliest man in Essos who was also significantly older than him, and is also a father. Hardly a character that can be put into the set limiting roles of the show.

I’m honestly going to stop myself right here this is getting too long and I should just sit down and write an essay 💀 like genuinely I should write a paper

[ask-serendipity-sky]

https://www.tumblr.com/serendipitous-sky/725316700426420224/no-i-mean-generally-even-if-they-are-no?source=share

RE-EDITED VERSION 😅

people really don't guess/think JK is gay

most QUEER armys/fans think he's at least bi, if not gay lol

hasn't shown any over interest in men except PJM tbh

so nj being his "boy crush", staring at and idolizing g dragon, iron man being his celeb crush, choosing the male lead form the k-drama 2521 when asked to choose between the two female leads, baby gay jk hopping around all giggly bc vhope (th + jh) were kissing, being nervous and giggly about meeting the skr men's football team during the world cup (when he performed 'dreamers' in qatar), flashing his abs at fanboys at ptd, saying yes to fanboys asking him out at a fansign event, getting happy when male fans call him handsome, and liking to be called hyung more than oppa mean nothing??

also even if it was just jm, demisexual is a thing anon 💀

had a gf before

that he didn't talk to for a couple hundred days lol

also when asked "if you see a really pretty girl after going to school, what will you do?" jk said "just pass her by"

or when asked "you’re asked out by a girl who you don’t like. what would you tell her without hurting her feelings?”, jk said "can i be honest? i don’t feel anything when i see you.”

also from MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, i'm a lesbian but in elementary school (age 5 - 11) i had a "boyfriend" that i then proceeded to completely forget about/did not talk to for i don't even know how long, and he had even switched schools without me knowing/caring lol...

loves IU

jk has been asked about his "ideal type" MANY times, and it has kept changing, at some point he even seemed to be describing jm...

imo jk sees iu as his idol, like how western queers/gays are with lady gaga/britney/ariana grande (jk admires her too btw 😭)

doesn't 'look or sound' gay

this is very homophobic and weird to say anon...

"doesn't look/act/sound gay" is exactly why we have so many people not willing to except th and jk, bc they're basing if someone is "gay enough" on stereotypes of queer/gay people

also this fandom has a hard time even saying jm, someone who "fits" those stereotypes, is bisexual/queer when the man has been screaming it since forever, but especially recently during face

seems you don't pay enough attention to jk and/or queer people

Edit to add:

Good morning anon,

People who don't know want to know these things about Jk or who refuse these things by making excuses are people who are threatened by the real him.

Perhaps they are homophobic or dislike the idea of jikook happening or think Jk will someday be into them.

Just let him be.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[bookscandlesnbts]

You’d be surprised by how many girls LOVE fuckboys. Isn’t it one of the most popular tropes in fanfics? Imo, it’s not really that deep down they think JK is a fuckboy: it’s more that they want him to be. It’s the only attribute from the typical fuckboy prototype he’s missing right now: he’s young, famous, talented, beautiful, fit, into typical masculine stuff like boxing, motorcycles (if the rumor about him having one is true), he has tattoos and piercings, a big dog, a big car, he likes looking a bit tough. Having lots of girls in his arms would just increase his status even more, signal he has potential for being a good lay (which, from what I’ve heard, does not always correlate 🙃) AND it would counterbalance his feminine/dainty side that many Armys don’t like and/or don’t want to acknowledge. Also, him being potentially bisexual or gay (imo, it’s the last option and it’s been obvious from day 1) decreases his attractiveness in the eyes of many fans: the typical fuckboy is straight, or it’s not fun and sexy anymore. You got to keep the fantasy alive, thinking deep down that YOU could be one of his girl. Even if, in reality, there’s not even 0.001% chance, you can imagine that eveeeeeentually it’s still a tiny tiny chance, and it’s still better than if he’s into guys! In real life, lots of girls fall for that type of guys. And then cry about it when he doesn’t want to settle down with them, because they realize they’re not THE ONE for him, aka the one that’s going to make him drop the fuckboy life, but that’s another story (I’m not talking about my own experience, I swear). They want the guy who’s popular with women, and the whole kpop industry capitalizes on this.

PS: I’m over generalizing of course, not all women are attracted to the fuckboy type, but a subsequent amount of girls/young women are, even more so in kpop fandoms because the industry precisely thrives on it.

Hi anon. Oh I’m well aware that fuckboys are popular and romanticized in media. I agree with you that some of these people just want Jungkook to be. I think they don’t know him they just see someone attractive with muscles and tattoos and can sing and dance and equate that to the bad boy trope in a romance novel.

Soooo many ARMYs don’t acknowledge his dainty side and I’m sure these new y/n stans don’t even know it exists. Jungkook can act very “babygirl” at times with his mannerisms. But that doesn’t fit the straight fuckboy stereotype.

They definitely need to keep the fantasy alive hence those that feel the need to shut down any mention of him not possibly being straight. It jumps to “don’t assume someone’s sexuality!!” Which is actually a deeply homophobic response, implying that being something other that hetero is a bad thing, but I digress.

I don’t know how to make it stop, but I’m hopeful that when we start getting regular content again that involves a certain sun and moon duo, that we will see these people fade to the background again. It will be harder for them to maintain their stance.

[rodolfoparras]

Palladium anon here again :3 tho if it's not taken could I be the 🌱 anon?

and yes absolutely horn play is hot, especially when the character is really sensitive with them. Teasing them and/or using them as handle bars when fucking them??? Extremely hot. I've seen some ppl want to like fuck the horn and in theory I understand but most horns are pointy😭 you're gonna scratch up your holes bestie be careful

Also sharing my winx, trix , specialist and some others sexuality headcanons because I have been hyperfixated on this forever and I'm so happy to find other queer ppl to talk to about it!!

Helia and Flora are definitely bi or pan, you can not convince me otherwise. I'd say they're poly curious maybe?? Despite the show having every single couple go through a jealousy arc🙄 I think Flora and Helia would definitely be open to dating someone else if they both liked them

Riven, Bloom and Stella are all bi with a male preference

Layla and Naboo are a bisexual power couple and I will die on this hill

Musa and Timmy are bi with a fem preference.

Brandom is straight, mandatory for every queer friend group is the one cishet guy that's just there.

Sky is questioning, having gay thoughts from living in the dorms with other men and seeing them shirtless

Now I'll probably get hate for it but I think Tecna as an aroace lesbian is neat. Like her and Timmy were cute ig but I like tecna better on her own outside a relationship. Also her struggling with feeling like a human and more robotic fits with the unfortunate stereotype aroace ppl get. Her arc reminds me of what my aroace brother went through

And as I mentioned before, Palladium is definitely a bisexual transmasc! Avalon and Valtor are gay

Icy is a mean lesbian Darcy is bi with male preference. Stormy isn't sure what exactly she is but definitely not straight.

You can def be 🌱 anon sugar!!

And yes I def agree that the most appropriate ways when it comes to hornplay(word?) is to use them as handle bars, fidgeting with them to rile up your partner or even licking and sucking also one thing idk if this is possible but like if they could make the horns vibrate by humming and have the sound travel through their body and up to their horns?🧎🏻‍♂️

I def agree that helia and flora are bi or pan! Especially helia I’m not trying to say that gay ppl have a look bc fuck stereotypes but…look at this man I wouldn’t even be surprised if helia went by he/ they

Also I can def see riven as bi. One thing I rmr disliking is how toxic his and musas relationships became I’m sorry but it was so silly to me even at that age 💀 like every other episode there was jealousy drama

Also I forgot about Naboo man he was so pretty!!! And I can def see both of them being bi!

SUGAR IM FUCKING SCREAMING BC TWLL WHY I KNEW WHO BRANDON WAS BEFORE EVEB SEARCHING IT UP MOST ANNOYIMG ASS STRAIGHT MAN

Also yes!! I 100% agre that sky is bi curios big buff dude crushes on another big buff dude

Also I really like your take on tecna! Tbh I rmr even as. Kid i could understand she did not want to be in a relationship 💀

Avalon and valtor are definitely old gays 🧎🏻‍♂️🧎🏻‍♂️

Also I like your take on the sisters! I don’t have much else to say bc lord knows they annoyed me in the show 😭

[wearequeer-andwearehere]

I am so sorry if this may sound ignorant (I have been doing online school for about 3 years now and havent really been around many people my age for a while so I don't know if this plays into my question or not)

I have 2 questions

1. I use the pronouns she/her (it's just what I have always been comfortable with) but I prefer to were more masc or boy stereotypical clothing I guess you could say. Now I do like girl clothes but not as much. I think im just confused if it's a body thing or a gender thing because I like masc clothes so much since they just fit my body better I definitely feel more comfortable in them, but I also like to wear fem presenting clothes as well that may be more form fitting. And you know sometimes I want to put on a suit and strut around in it and sometimes I want to put on a dress it just depends.

2. I am very confused about my sexuality lol. I don't think I realized people could even be more than what society had already deemed as normal and around the age I would have probably began to explore my sexuality covid hit and everything went online. (For reference I am about to turn 16 and would have been 13 when the pandemic hit) I feel the same when I see an attractive female as I would an attractive male (this goes for anyone really if I find them attractive I can feel attraction to them, whether it's a platonic, romantic, or sexual attraction genuinely don't know) I also am fine reading sex scenes but whenever people talk about it in person or if I watch it on tv that's when I get uncomfy and I genuinely can't see myself having sex with someone (idk if that will change or not) but im fine with seeing myself being in a relationship and cuddling expressing my love for a person and sometimes kissing (it depends)

I am so sorry that this was sooo long and all over the place my brain is all messy when I don't plan things out before I write or say anything, and you don't have to answer of course this was just me ranting about how I have no clear thoughts as to who I am yet and it feels good to get it off my chest lt even if you don't answer or even see this.

Thank you genuinely it feels good to talk.

No need to apologise!! I’m here for u :] That’s good, I’m glad writing this ask helped you feel better—try and write shit down sometimes, even if it’s just hastily typed into a google doc and immediately deleted. Shit’s magic honestly.

Preferring or liking masculine clothing doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re transgender. Like obviously it’s a possibility but it’s not like, oh I like pants instead of skirts that means I’m a guy!! You could be trans or you could just be a girl who likes different types of clothing.

My advice is like, don’t sweat it too much, and just do what makes you happy. If you like masculine clothing, fucking go for it!!! I’m sure you’ll slay 100%!! If you wanna wear form fitting stuff, go for that too!! Just. Do what makes you feel like yourself, and do what makes you feel happy, don’t worry about labels and am-i-trans-am-i-cis and all that, kay? Just Vibe!!!!!!

I’d suggest you consider mspec labels, which means attraction to multiple genders, labels like bisexual and pansexual, or just plain old bi and pan might be good for you!!

You can look into the asexual spectrum, which is basically all sexualities that aren’t like 100% allosexual (allosexual means like. most of the population and how they experience sexual attraction.)

Yes, attraction can be confusing. And yes, it’s possible the stuff you feel might change. Maybe you’ll feel sexual attraction someday, or maybe you never will!!

But go with what you like *now.* If bi feels good, go for bi! If asexual feels good, go for it. If you wanna change it later, that’s okay!!

I’m gonna give you my standard new shoe advice—yknow when you have rlly shitty old shoes but you’re used to them, and when you get new shoes you’re like wtf these are really weird, but then you eventually realise they’re much more comfy and you were just used to the shitty old ones?

New labels can be kind of like that. So like, if u try a label and it feels Weird, ask yourself if the weird is a “this is the wrong shoe size” weird or a “i need to break this shoe in” weird.

Hope I could help you out!! Sending my love, and I hope you find what makes you feel happy and feel like yourself!! Have an amazing day <333

[bunnytown-central]

Posting on a side blog also I’m too scared to ask this in a community chat so I hope this reaches the tag..

Large vent about my own personal identity:

Under the cut bc it is a LOT of explaining/venting

I don’t know where else to put this but I kinda have a weird apprehension with referring to myself/identifying with any less “mainstream” lgbt term. Like I found the term aegosexual and it fit me perfectly, but I felt kind of apprehensive to refer to myself as that like I wasn’t even sure, like I had to meet some criteria to do so ?? It fits but I feel kind of like I’m not actually it, it’s weird!! Maybe bc of how I saw ppl act towards stuff like this, idk

Like right now, I kinda feel like being a woman gives you a lot of constraints on your appearance and how you should act, and I do sometimes wonder what that makes me because I don’t have dysphoria, I just find being a woman tiring, but at the same time I know I’m not a *man*, I just want to do stuff like feel like I shouldn’t have to shave my body hair or wear dresses over pants since fancy dresses that are form-fitting and have cuts for the leg made me feel self conscious, plus pants are more comfortable to me, but I’m afraid that doesn’t make me need a label and like I’m looking for excuses? I don’t even know because I’m so uncertain and feel like I’m looking for excuses to be in a group, but I don’t see that many lgbt people or any groups in Southwestern USA so I have no ppl to compare with so I have no idea!

Like, I sometimes have something happen to me and I have an internal flash of “this wouldn’t happen if I wasn’t a woman” but at the same time I know that being a man isn’t what I want. Like what I really want is to just want to be not held down by feminine stereotypes and only feel like that when I want to. But. I don’t know if that necessitates a label or if I’m just complaining about something ghrgrggrrgrhrggr But at the same time I don’t want to change my pronouns I don’t know!!!

And I get that labels aren’t everything! And many find them restrictive, but this has always been how I’ve done things, I personally categorize things like feelings because it helps me pinpoint and describe what they are better. But I can’t bring myself to do it when it comes to something as integral to your identity as sexuality or gender. It’s too much pressure so to speak

But at the same time I feel like if I do choose a label I feel like I’m not actually feeling it and that I’m just picking one to be part of a group or something and this is really hard 😭 I keep seeing ppl say that when they know they are something, the term makes something in their mind just click, I think im just trying to look for that but im too scared ppl will say im faking or dont count or something. Like. someone accusing me of faking it is a PRIMAL fear I have.

And honestly? That’s how I feel about if I should use the term bisexual! So, there were a lot of times where I’ve fallen in love/had crushes on men, real and fictional. But. There’s also MULTIPLE accounts of me being into women/fem aligned ppl. But the thing is they were all fictional. Like nearly 98% were fictional women. But they weren’t anything short lived, I remember having a crush on one fem character for nearly a year, a legitimate crush, as in reading “imagines”, “x reader” fanfics, looking at art, and listening to fanmade voice acting of the character for days in a row like it was a ritual (if you’re curious, it was Spinel). This also happened AGAIN recently, but with a friend’s OC that I just gravitated to since August of last year, and I still feel infatuated, just to a lesser extent. I’ve made at least 2 lesbian couples as characters when I was in grade school. I still have a lot of feelings for some of my own female characters to this day!

But I feel like that doesn’t count. Like what, I’m bisexual just because I like fictional women but not actual real-life women?? I feel like a NEET, I have to be attracted to IN REAL LIFE women in order to actually consider myself bisexual. It ALSO feels like I’m looking too hard to be in a group when I think this but it’s obviously something if it’s still happening! Do fictional women count if it’s only fictional women and not irl women??? But I also do sometimes find some real life women attractive aesthetically or have attractive qualities to me, but I don’t feel infatuated towards them bc they’re actual ppl… maybe I am aegosexual aldgskdjl I WANT TO GO TO A MORE DIVERSE PART OF THE US THAN THIS SO I CAN ACTUALLY GET A FOCUS GROUP!!!

Anyway yeah, I just needed to get this off my chest because my own insecurities are holding me back from exploring, I wish my mind would just get a grip already and figure it out. Like “hmmmmm I wonder if I’m bisexual or not, I guess I’ll never know :(“ <- (literally thought about making/drawing a butch lesbian ursula character today and yesterday, has said they would date their own masc-aligned nb character) like come the fuck onnn

[viriborne]

For reference, here are the characters I believe fits under the definition of “queer coded” and why

(DISCLAIMER: queer coding isn’t Inherently negative which can be seen in two examples below. Most of my frustration is with how difficult it seems for these companies to just SAY that their characters are meant to be queer without pussying out. That’s all.)

Obey Me!:

Mc: Consistently uses they/them pronouns which is never questioned about by anyone. Was on the fence about including them until I realized they could’ve just as easily put in a pronoun selection thing for each player. This mechanic has definitely drawn in more players who are LGBT as it’s one of the only big otome games out there that doesn’t force you to be a girl or a boy. I think it’s generally harmless, likely mainly done to bring in more than solely female players.

Lucifer: This was definitely more of an issue in the beginning than now but it’s still relevant. Many jokes about how Lucifer was interested romantically in Diavolo by others (mainly his brothers). Ads depict him being overprotective or possessive of Diavolo like a lover would. This is a direct example of both queer coding AND baiting as he never says he feels any type of way toward Diavolo nor is he confirmed to experience attraction towards any other man. This STILL being a thing shown via advertisements feels a little scummy to me since it’s obvious that the team behind om KNOWS that an mlm relationship can be a big draw towards games.

Thirteen: Getting a teensy bit controversial with this one but hold ur pitchforks for now ok. Thirteen is a woman who says, in her introduction video, that she doesn’t understand Mc’s attraction “when it comes to men.” She’s openly annoyed or hostile with the men around her, when she was announced by the official om accounts they said she was added to appeal to people “regardless of gender or preference,” and like…to top it all off she looks like a dyke ok. This reaper is a lesbian and I’d really like them to say it with their full chest. Okay now you can be mad at me.

Mephistopheles: Something about Diavolo just really makes the devs wanna queer code these assholes. In short, he’s Diavolo resident ass-licker and gets jealous and spiteful of anyone close to him, mainly Lucifer. He also wears fucking stilettos which I still can’t get over.

*Asmodeus is not an example of queer coding. He’s openly and canonically bisexual.

TWST:

Ok, let’s just first address that all the overblot characters are based on iconic Disney villains who were themselves based on queer stereotypes. Yes, this goes for the female villains as well. All of the female villains are based on derogatory depictions of lesbians. Notice how all the female villains don’t have a husband and are constantly preying on a beautiful younger woman? Hell, Ursula’s design is literally based off of a drag queen.

Rook: Rook, Rook, Rook. Definitely the most obvious of coded Twst characters. He’s a flamboyant man who constantly harasses his male peers, most of which pertains to how he views them as beautiful in a literal predatory way. In one of his cards, he is seen as blushing while dreamily looking out a window at Leona. He is also constantly by the side of another queer coded character.

Vil: He is, like Rook, flamboyant and focused on beauty. He is constantly wearing makeup and reprimands anyone who claims that clothes or makeup are gendered things (go king). He’s honestly not written terribly for a gnc character by DISNEY (minus the overblot) but it’s still coding nonetheless.

Sebek: This motherfucker is like Rook but somehow Worse. He’s Obsessed with Malleus and compliments his beauty and capabilities at every chance he has. He also literally has a painting of Malleus in his own room. I don’t really have to say more lol.

I’m tentative to put Yuu here since Disney seems allergic to straight up referring to them using anything other than gender neutral titles but let’s just say they have a foot in the door or something.

Om and Twst are battling over who can queer code their characters the most (derogatory)

Putting more detailed ramblings in a reblog

[susiephone]

Imagine thinking that wanting straight people to be accepting of gay people is a "trap" and not like, literally THE entire goal of the modern LGBT rights movement since its inception

okay. this is in response to me saying “respectability politics is a trap.” which it absolutely is.

but i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here. let’s define respectability politics, shall we?

several people who are more well-spoken than me have talked about this. to quote this article on the subject:

Respectability politics is a school of thought that utilizes respectability narratives as the basis for enacting social, political, and legal change.

Respectability narratives are representations of marginalized individuals meant to construct an image of the marginalized group as people sharing similar traits, values, morals with the dominant group.

essentially, respectability politics is when people in a marginalized group (queer people, disabled people, people of color) wish to be accepted by the majority, and thus present themselves in a way and behave in a way that the majority deems acceptable - and pressure others in their marginalized group to do the same. for example:

“Not all bisexual people are sluts, I’m bi and I’ve been in a committed relationship for 20 years!”

“I’m gay, but I’m not one of THOSE gay guys, I hate shopping and I don’t like to flaunt my sexuality at all!”

“Lesbians aren’t really all masculine, I love makeup and having long hair.”

(I’m using examples I’ve seen in the queer community because I’m queer; I know this happens a lot in communities of color, but I am not qualified to speak on that at all.)

this stems from a desire to be accepted by the majority; for the purposes of this discussion, straight people. we hear straight people say things like “i could never date a bi person, they’re all cheaters” or “i don’t mind gay guys, don’t just shove it in my face” and “why don’t lesbians act like women if they love them?” and, in response, some people go, “i don’t act like that!! you can accept me! i fit in! i’m respectable, i’m not like those guys, they embarrass us!”

there’s also a lot of people saying, “don’t reinforce the stereotype.” as if it’s OUR fault straight people stereotype us.

so this leads to shaming within our own community:

“You’re bi and polyamorous? Wow, way to make people think we’re all two-timing whores.”

“Makeup? Jesus, we get it, you’re gay, you don’t have to make it a pride parade every time you go out.”

“You look like a teenage boy, this is why everyone lesbians aren’t real women.”

and that all boils down to:

“THIS is the example you’re setting? This is the face you show to the world? Don’t you know you’re representing us? No wonder they don’t respect us.”

and that’s the real problem: telling other queer people, “it is YOUR fault you’re not accepted, YOU aren’t acceptable, YOU reinforce these stereotypes, YOU should try and be more respectable, more normal.” and the thing is, “normal” is defined by the majority. THEY decide what is acceptable behavior for us. and guess what? 

most of the time, that boils down to, “It’s fine if you’re different... as long as you’re as close to what I deem normal as possible. As long as I can’t tell you’re different.”

in the queer community, this sort of thinking has led to the exclusion of butch lesbians, femme gay men, nonbinary people, non-passing trans people, trans people in general, people who use any pronouns besides she/her and he/him, bisexual people, ace people, aro people, pan people, polyamorous bisexual people, people who have an active sex life, sex workers, people who have changed how they identify, and countless others. these people get shoved aside by the Good Respectable Gays, who are eager to say, “We’re not like them, we’re just like you!” in order to be accepted by the mainstream. and it still doesn’t work. even the most macho, would-never-guess-it gay guy is bound to face some level of oppression or otherness at some point in his life. it doesn’t matter how much he fits in, how much he distances himself from the Unacceptable Queers; it won’t work 100% of the time. how’s that for a punchline?

there is no point in trying to file off the “unacceptable” parts of our community just to please straight people. 

if a person hates all queer people, no matter how they act or present, they’re a homophobe.

if a person doesn’t hate queer people, just the ones who shove it in your face and sleep around and won’t shut up about it and buck gender norms and use weird pronouns and expect people to learn their new name and change their identity every week... they’re still a fucking homophobe.

and why the fuck are we trying to please homophobes, again?

so when people say lil nas x is bad, actually, because he “reinforces the stereotype” of gay people going to hell and thinking a lot about sex or whatever, they’re playing right into respectability politics. why can’t he just talk about his sexuality in a normal way? why can’t he express himself in a nicer way? why does he have to use that imagery? why does he have to make straight people uncomfortable?

lis nas x is a gay black man who grew up being told he’d burn in hell for being gay. and he made an awesome song with a legendary music video saying, “fine. i’ll go to hell, just like you want, and it’ll be great. i’ll take the damn place over and make satan fall in love with me. and i’ll have a great time doing it, because i’m proud of who i am, and i won’t apologize for it or be ashamed of it anymore.”

to see that and wring your hands, worrying that a straight person will see it and decide to be homophobic about it, and pinning the blame for that on nas is missing the point.

every time we as a community make ourselves lesser or change the way we present just to be accepted by the majority, they move the goalposts, and someone else gets left behind. and the beautiful thing about the queer community is that there is a place for everyone who is left out in the cold by the straight, cis majority.

“We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it” was the rallying cry for a reason. we’re different, you think we’re weird, you think we’re deviant, you don’t get us, and that’s fine, you don’t have to get us. we’re not going anywhere. get used to it.

respectability politics is a game you cannot win. so stop playing.

[hintsofhoney]

well it's not like everyone in spn fandom thought he was bi/gay. there are plenty of people in the spn fandom (mainly on the bibro/wincest side, but also some destiel blogs) who were always very vocal about misha being a straight guy who is just pandering to his fans or at the very least playing into the whole thing. and (unfortunately) it looks like they were right.

here’s the thing.

labels are just labels. im bisexual but I’ve never been with a woman, and so I’ve had a lot of people tell me im not actually bisexual. i know people who consider themselves straight who have gay sex, etc etc. i guess my point is, labels are what society makes them. and there’s a list a mile long of things misha’s done that don’t fit the socially-created definition of “straight”. that doesn’t mean that he was pandering to anyone on purpose. being straight doesn’t mean you have to have all the attributes we think of when we think of the stereotypical straight person. and yeah, I’m sure misha knew this. I’m sure he knew that his behavior isn’t typical straight-man behavior and that we all kinda just… assumed that he was something else. but one’s sexuality is a really complex, difficult thing to navigate, and we don’t know how long he’s been trying to figure it out. or if he still is. if the label “straight” is what makes him comfortable right now, if that’s what he identifies with most right now, then that’s fine. yeah, he’s done a variety of things with the same sex that don’t fall into the socially-created category that is straight. but it’s his sexuality and he can choose what he wants to do with it, how he wants to explore it, and what he wants to call it based on his evaluation of it. no, I don’t think he kissed men, had sex with men, entered into romantic relationships with men to pander to this fandom. and no, I don’t think he acts the way he does to pander to this fandom. I don’t think he’s an advocate and an ally just to pander to this fandom, and to reduce everything he’s done for the lgbtq+ members of this fandom — everything he’s done for the lgbtq+ community in general — by simply brushing it off as pandering to his fan base is frankly a little insulting. we know misha’s put his foot in his mouth before. this time it was a particularly bad situation. in my opinion, based on the original coming out and then the straight apology tweets, he’s still trying to figure things out. and if he wants to be labeled as straight until he does figure things out, again, that’s fine. and if he’s already figured it out and he is indeed straight, that’s fine, too. but I’m not gonna be one to place sexuality of all things in a box and be like “because misha did x, y, and z that must mean he’s been pandering to us this whole time” when in reality sexuality is fluid and complex and weird and doesn’t make as much sense as we like to think it does. whatever this was — a slip-up, a misunderstanding, a foot-in-mouth, an accidental coming out before he was ready, a forced-back-into-the-closet situation, etc. — whatever it was, yeah, it sucks. but I’m not gonna let people reduce who he is, everything he’s done and all the good & hard work he has put in and continues to put in trying to make this world a better place, to simply pandering to his fanbase. yeah, I may be confused about his sexuality, but at the end of the day, that’s none of my business. but one thing I’m not confused about is that he is without a doubt, a good, loving, and kind person who, like the rest of us, is just trying his best

[mogai-sunflowers]

I'm not trying to like... Start a fight? But it's ahistorical to say that the only reason bi sapphics left the lesbian label is because political lesbians drove them out. It's not true. There are many cases of bi sapphic and bi achillian activists who wanted to be defined by their own sexuality and not by their sex acts. It removes the autonomy of bisexuals to claim we all were so weak that lesbian separatists drove us out for feminist reasons when the political lesbians your mentioning, not by name given but it's not really needed, were a fringe group whose harm is indeed large but often over exaggerated. They wouldn't have that power to literally change all of lesbian culture and it's community and make bi sapphics leave. In my opinion, based on historical documents of both lesbian and bisexual activists and writers from the 1920 up til about the 1960s, it was just a natural shift in the community. Bisexuals wanted their own label outside of just being forced to swing between straight and gay depending who we're with and to claim they just got basically shoved out of lesbian bars and slapped with the bi label just.... Isn't true and ignores large swabs of bisexual history in trying to own our identity and the acceptance of bisexuals in mlm and wlw spaces.

I'd love to see counter evidence and I'm not opposed to the mspec lesbian label but as someone who loves and inspects bi History, this narrative that we were simply kicked out and it was the mean lesbian's fault is often used to encourage lesbophobia and simply... Isn't true. I deeply encourage you to check up on bisexual history concerning activists and the separation of the mlm and wlw communities maybe in different places than you haven't prior and how, for most of us, we left the gay and lesbian communities willingly because LGBT enforced biphobia was just as rampant back then as it is today and we wanted our own identity outside of just sex acts.(which deeply did and still dose contribute to the biphobic sediments that bisexuals are flirtatious and unloyal cheaters and liars. it wasn't just cishets calling us that stuff.)

I hope this doesn't sound passive aggressive or demeaning in anyway, that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just tried of this take that it was mean lesbian supremacists that kicked us out without a source ever to be found and just buckets and buckets of bi activists talking about bisexuality and how they wanted a label and place of their own going completely unnoticed and unacknowledged because it doesn't fit the narrative that often underlines arguments concerning mspec lesbianism next to mono lesbianism ("bi lesbians are great and automatically unproblematic but monosexual/cis lesbians are automatically suspicious and terfy" kind of trash with no introspection into how that's blatantly lesbophobic regardless of any trans/mspec standpoint. Not just bigoted and applying your own stereotype on a fellow queer person because of terfs (also reinforces the terf sediment that terf is just the new word for lesbian) but also just patently not true.)

I fully agree with everything you’re saying, I normally talk only about the political lesbianism aspect because it was pretty violent and it’s what I know most about, I know it’s not the sole reason for what happened. so in that regard I’m sorry for misrepresenting that part of history.

however, I don’t think that pointing out the impact lesbian separatism has had on the community is in opposition to that. lesbian community used to always be about celebrating the joy of love for women, not about not being attracted to men. im not saying there’s anything wrong with being proud of not being attracted to men, or that individuals shouldn’t define themselves that way in relation to their lesbianism, but political lesbianism DEFINITELY reflected a shift that has made the general entity of the lesbian community much less about love for women, which is in my opinion a loss. it’s become more about excluding people based on an attraction quota than it has been about including people who personally resonate with the lesbian label and experience. The exclusionary part came from political lesbianism, and that’s evident in the way so many younger lesbian communities operate nowadays. Bi activism wasn’t about trying to force a rift between the two communities, but rather to acknowledge their general distinctions, so to me it’s not as relevant to the history of lesbian exclusionism. But I don’t know enough about that aspect of history to truly form an opinion on it, so I would really appreciate if you could send some of the sources you’re talking about!!

overall, I agree with you that i and others should take those aspects of queer history into account more, and I’d love to learn more about it, but I don’t think it’s any less important to acknowledge the roots of the exclusionism that so many lesbians face. i do not at all think that lesbian and terf are synonymous and I hate that people think they are, but acknowledging that the roots of radical feminism partially lie within lesbian feminism, isn’t saying that, it’s acknowledging how transphobia and biphobia have played a real part in our history. it’s not “mean lesbians” it’s bigoted people who used their lesbian identity as an excuse to promote exclusionary and reactionary queer politics /info /nm